How the outdoor industry, conservation groups, and public land policy work together to create the idea of “wilderness”

Bill and Anders sit down with environmental justice scholar Joe Whitson to talk about how our stories about nature shape the land itself. Joe’s new book, Marketing the Wilderness, looks at how the outdoor industry, conservation groups, and public land policy work together to create the idea of “wilderness”,  and how that idea impacts Indigenous sovereignty and management.

Joe explains his concept of “wildernessing,” the process of making a place look and feel “untouched” through policy decisions, land management, and marketing, even though these landscapes have deep human histories. Using Bears Ears National Monument as a powerful example, he walks through how a tribal-led campaign for protection and co-management initially aligned with conservation and recreation interests, but over time became framed around outdoor recreation, often sidelining Indigenous priorities in public conversation and policymaking.

The conversation moves from history to the present, exploring how our cultural definition of “wilderness” has shifted over time, why climate change is challenging the myth of pristine nature, and what it will take to create a more just and inclusive future for public lands. Bill, Anders, and Joe dig into land back, co-management, Indigenous values of reciprocity and connection, and how we can move past the simple idea of untouched vs. ruined landscapes.

Today, we explore:

• What “wildernessing” means and how it shapes both landscapes and public perception

• The story of Bears Ears National Monument and the complex coalition of tribes, conservationists, and outdoor brands

• How outdoor industry advocacy can help, and sometimes overshadow, Indigenous voices

• The changing cultural and legal meaning of “wilderness”

• How climate change is breaking down the idea of untouched nature

• Possible paths forward include land back, co-management, and bringing Indigenous values into land policy

• Why understanding the full history of a place can lead to better decisions about its future

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts, or at thewildidea.com.

Resources and mentions from today’s episode:

Connect with Joe

• Joe’s website and book
• Tangled Roots: Joe on Substack
• Joe on Instagram

Places and Landmarks

• Bears Ears National Monument (Utah)
• Glacier National Park (Montana)
• Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve (Alaska)
• Badger-Two Medicine (Montana)
• Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (Minnesota)
• Yosemite National Park (California)

Organizations and Coalitions

• National Wilderness Coalition, Steering Committee: 
• Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance
• GreenLatinos
• Wilderness Workshop
• Native Women’s Wilderness
• Save the Boundary Waters
• Conservation Lands Foundation
• Southern Environmental Law Center
• Sierra Club
• The Wilderness Society

Government and Policy References

• U.S. Forest Service
• The Wilderness Act
• Obama administration Bears Ears designation
• Trump administration Bears Ears rollback
• Biden administration Bears Ears restoration

Concepts and Campaigns

• Land Back movement
• Leave No Trace
• Smokey Bear
• Rivers with legal personhood (New Zealand)

Joe Whitson is a scholar of environmental justice and cultural geography whose work explores how people understand, experience, and shape the natural world. He holds a PhD in American Studies and has published on topics ranging from national parks to the politics of public land. His recent book, Marketing the Wilderness, examines how the outdoor industry constructs ideas of nature through advertising and branding, and its impact on Indigenous people and sovereignty.

The Wild Idea is independently produced by Wild Idea Media. If you believe conversations like this matter, you can help us keep them going by subscribing, leaving a review, sharing the episode, or signing up for our newsletter at thewildidea.com. Together, we can protect what connects us.